“What is China doing which is really that heinous?” asks Jagdish Bhagwati, a world-renowned economist known for his advocacy of free trade, as a rhetorical question during this interview with the GO that covered topics of international aid and development. “I’m in favor of lecturing to the Chinese, saying you should do better in terms of imposing some conditionality, but at the same time, not to spend too much time worrying about it,” he says.
Dr. Bhagwati, a professor at Columbia University and senior fellow in international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations, sees the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the World Bank as suffering under anti-reform, anti-growth policies. “Unfortunately, both in the Bank and the UNDP, the ideas about development are really, I think, unwittingly calculated to harm the developing countries. So I think this really needs to be taken in hand. And I hope that some of these messages get through."
“The World Bank and UNDP, which are the two main agencies—and then there are the OECD and UNCTAD, which are the think tanks of the rich and the poor countries respectively—they all need leaders who will surmount their secretariats in a way, because secretariats tend to be behind the curve,” he says. “They will attract first-rate students. There are so many economists coming out now. At Columbia, it’s the most popular discipline, the largest one, about 300 students. And so, because everybody wants to do some economics. So I think there’s a huge supply of them.”
The interview was conducted by Vanessa Wyeth, former Research Fellow at the International Peace Institute.
Listen to interview (or download mp3):
Interview Transcript (edited by the GO)
Vanessa Wyeth (VW): We are here today with Jagdish Bhagwati who is a professor at Columbia University and senior fellow in international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations. Professor Bhagwati, thank you very much for joining the Global Observatory today.
Jagdish Bhagwati (JB): Thank you for inviting me.
VW: Professor Bhagwati, is the current international aid and development framework fit for the 21st century? What kind of structural changes do you think are needed to adapt the collective systems of delivering aid and supporting development to today’s changed geopolitical realities?
JB: I think what’s changed is not just the rise of the emerging powers, which everybody mentions. It’s true that India and China, for instance, are giving aid, but it’s not anywhere to the order that the Western countries have been giving traditionally. The one difference, of course, is that China doesn’t go by any rules. India tends to go by it, but it’s not a big deal. So I think in many cases people who are worried about aid flows or concerned about increasing them, they always point to, and the civil society groups always point to, how China is spoiling the market for conditionality. And I think there is something to it.


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